Visiting the Museum Ship Valley Camp in Sault Ste Marie

Paul Sabourin: 00:00:00

One of their main purpose was to secure a waterfront site for tourists. In 1966, the Valley Camp freighter was then decommissioned. And consequently, the purchase was made. And in 1968, on July the fourth, the ship was tugged across Lake Superior right here to Sault Saint Marie.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:00:25

Hello everyone and welcome back to Total Michigan. I am your host, Cliff DuVernois. If you paid attention to the episode that we did with Captain Scott with the Famous Soo Lock Boat Tours, he made a comment about how they do some of the tours in French. And of course I hear this and I want to be a part of it. But anyways, we're lucky because right next door to the Famous Soo Locks is the Valley Camp, and this is a nationally recognized museum. One of the must. stop points if you're going to be making a trip to Sault Ste Marie. And today we've got the honor and the privilege of talking to not only the French speaker for the tours of the Famous Soo Locks, but also a curator and a tour guide here at the Valley Camp. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show, Paul Sabourin. Hey,

Paul Sabourin: 00:01:17

Thank you very much, Cliff. It's a pleasure and an honor to be here in your company and to be able to share with your viewers and listeners all of the historical aspect of Sault Ste Marie.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:01:33

Yes. Can I? So I gotta say, I love how you say that in French, so let's get that right off the bat. I love that. And I really, there's so much here that we need to dive into 'cause I'm learning so much about Sault Ste marie. But before we get into that, Paul, I'd like to know a little bit more about you. So where are you from? Where did you grow up?

Paul Sabourin: 00:01:52

I was born in Northern Quebec in a small community, which was a mining community. And then my parents were there moving from Ontario back in the thirties. And from there I then relocated with the family back in Ontario. Went to school in English at University. Okay, and as soon as I graduated and I was in Toronto, then I took a beeline for Montreal. And I studied in recreation. And I was the assistant Director of recreation in on the island of Montreal. Then I also went to Hydro Quebec in the James Bay Project as a recreation director. After that, then I decided after three years I'd warm up. So I canoed down to Mississippi, Okay, four months and met this beautiful young lady in Marquette.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:02:51

That's how these stories always

Paul Sabourin: 00:02:52

We are celebrating our 47th anniversary.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:02:56

Congratulations.

Paul Sabourin: 00:02:58

That's you. Thank you very much with our three daughters, Simon Rashelle and Adele, and five grandchildren. So being here in Sault Ste. Marie, she was born and raised here in Sault St. Marie. Then I went to work across the river, I should say, across the St. Mary's River on the International Bridge with the Ministry of Culture and Recreation. Ministry of Culture and Recreation dealt with naturally with recreation, sports and fitness. But also it dealt with the culture side of the ministry, which was art literature, libraries, museums, and I emphasize museum because that was one aspect of my work that I really enjoyed. 30 years of working over at in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. A good friend of mine who at that particular time was the executive director of the Sault Historic Sites, the owner of the museum, ship Valley Camp, Richard Brawley, and also part owner at this point here, and also. with this Famous Soo Lock Boat Tour. So Richard says, said, Paul says, why don't you come in? Okay. I retired on a Friday and on the Monday I was here on the Valley Camp. So I think I had two days of, semi-retirement. And I say semi-retirement because I put in three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. And the rest of the time I am free to do as I wish. I enjoyed working here on the Museum Ship Valley Camp.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:04:35

So let me ask you this question. There's a whole bunch of questions I actually want to ask. So let's go back to the beginning. So your wife, your daughters, are they fluent in French as well?

Paul Sabourin: 00:04:43

Adele speaks the French. And even my her son, Logan even said the other day, he says, I'm gonna have some creme glacée ice cream. with this here, my wife tried. But then it was pretty difficult at that particular point. And, we do have, yes, conversations in French with the rest of the family.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:05:06

Beautiful. Love it. I gotta ask you this question. What is it, 'cause you, you said before about, being involved with museums and you really liked it. What in particular drew you to that type of work?

Paul Sabourin: 00:05:19

Well, it was the provincial government and it was ministry, and it was rec recreation. This was my particular background, and with that, then I had applied 10 years, three times, and finally ended up here in Sault Saint Marie, with that particular position. It was a covering an area that also dealt with francophones. My position was a designated bilingual position. So I had to be able to speak both languages. Sure. So English is my second language and I know that, it was somewhat difficult at first trying to pronounce the. T h if I say my mother and my brother. Yeah. And all of this here and the feather. So this is when I'm doing tours, I usually then let people know that, yes, this is gonna be my accent. But nevertheless anyway, it was then a good opportunity to be able to be involved here with the Museum Ship Valley Camp. Because in the seventies, to be more exact. In 78, 77, the Edmund Fitzgerald sank in 1975. Indeed, it sank in Canadian water. And it was the province of Ontario through the archeological branch. and I was with the regional services branch. And we had our archeologists in the office. And I pretty much had to send a lot of briefing notes dealing with the recovery of the bell from the Edmund Fitzgerald. So then I got to know pretty much the history. And as a matter of fact, tie in with this here Gordon Lightfoot, when I was in Toronto in Yorkville. Back in the sixties, Gordon Lightfoot was in Yorkville performing. I also had the opportunity when he was in James Bay of seeing him doing his canoe trip down the Rupert River. And last but not least, the last time that he was here in Sault Ste. Marie at the Kewadin Casino, I had the opportunity along with a good friend Bruce Lin and his wife, and my wife of sitting with. And being backstage. Bruce is with the Great Lake Shipwreck Historical Society. So we do have very much common activity between both of us here.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:07:47

So for our audience, I do I want to say that for this particular conversation here, Gordon Lightfoot wrote a song about the Edmund fitzgerald. And not only that, but he recently passed away. Yes. because it was all I know. It was all over my Facebook feed. Especially 'cause being here in Michigan and Edmund Fitzgerald was in Lake Superior, like you said on the Canadian side. so yeah,

Paul Sabourin: 00:08:13

This is definitely, yes, a loss with Gordon Lightfoot and the legend lives on from the Chippewa on down on a big lake they call Gitche Gumee. This is the start of the song itself. There's also an obituary that I took out from the newspapers and all of the literature, and it's posted right here. Sure. At the ship because we have here inside the museum, ship Valley camp, three artifacts or three debris from the Edmund Fitzgerald. Lifeboat number one, only half of it. Because it was ripped in half. Lifeboat number two, it was found on the shore, on the Ontario side, and a portion of a life ring. And we have a beautiful display about the Edmund Fitzgerald. This was one of my first project that I was able to accomplish here when I arrived here. And thanks to the Michigan Council of arts and cultural affairs, they provided the funding for brand new displays, all of the names of the 29 sailors, what they did, and also being able to talk about the dive that was done on the Edmonds Fitzgerald by the Woodrush and Captain Jimmy Hobaugh talked about the Calypso and the one time that they were here on Lake Superior. So the whole background of the Edmund Fitzgerald can be seen here at the Museum Ship Valley Camp. And as well, the bell. When it was retrieved from the bottom and replaced by another bell. And that bell is now at the Great Lake Shipwreck Historical Society every November 10th. It is rung, 30 times. And I can still feel the shiver in my back when I was able and invited to ring it for the Captain McSorley.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:10:16

Yes. So let's unpack a little bit here about, 'cause I know that I've said several times that we're talking about Valley Camp, but this is Sault Ste. Marie historic sites. So why don't you talk to us, when people see the flyer or the brochure for the historic sites, what does that, in, what does that entail? What does that include?

Paul Sabourin: 00:10:36

Okay. Sault Ste Marie itself was founded as a permanent mission in 1668 by Father Jacques Marquette,

Cliff Duvernois: 00:10:46

Which makes it one of the oldest

Paul Sabourin: 00:10:48

It is the oldest city in the state of Michigan. I say city one has to be qualifying it because it is a permanent established mission. Roman catholic. And consequently also, there's also the comment that it is the third oldest in the US. But one has to make that particular comment. Also, it is with St. Augustine and Santa Fe, the third oldest permanent established mission. Where masses Roman Catholic were held. Right? So in 1968, the city of Sault Ste. Marie was celebrating its tricentennial 300 years. And the board under Don Gary Sr. then established the creation of the site and the creation also of all of the activities. One of their main purpose was to secure a waterfront site for tourists, right? And consequently, the word got around and in dilute. In 1966, the Valley Camp freighter was then decommissioned. And consequently, the purchase was made. And in 1968, on July the fourth, the ship was tugged across Lake Superior right here to Sault Saint Marie. Also, in addition to that, the Sault Historic site was able to acquire the Tower of History. The Tower of History is one particular site that, so you say Sault S A U L T. Historic sites, plural. So the Tower of History was a building that was then built in 66 by the Diocese of Sault Ste Marie, and Marquette. The church itself, the fifth church that was with the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sault Ste Marie needed to have some repair. it was discussed by the parishioners and the various diocese, employees said, instead of renovation, let's build a brand new one. So they started with the bell tower, okay? And once that was completed, expenses and budgets were limited. So they did repair the church, fortunately. Late 1800 church, beautiful St. Mary's pro cathedral. Then when the debt was paid on the tower, they then turned it over to the Sault Historic site to own and operate. So we do have those two particular sites. In addition to this also, we also contract with the River of History Museum. It is a separate organization. It is referred to as Sault Ste Marie Foundation for Culture and History. Okay. It is a beautiful site. The history going from the Ice Age, all the way to our 1910 governor and all the times in between. It is located on the Main Street, Ashman Street. And beautiful site where you can visit all three sites for a deluxe combination ticket that can be purchased at the Valley Camp, the Tower History, or the River of History.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:14:21

Nice. For our audience, we're gonna take a quick break to thank our sponsors. When we come back, we're going to learn a little bit more from Paul, exactly what you can expect when you come here and how you can make the best of your visit should you choose to come. We'll see you after the break. Are you enjoying these amazing stories? Michigan is full of people that are doing some pretty extraordinary things. If you want these amazing stories sent directly to your inbox, head over to total michigan.com. Enter your email address and get them today. What are you going to get? I'm glad you asked. First, you're gonna join our awesome Michigan community and it is quite awesome. Second, you will get an email that includes the top five interviews from the show sent directly to your inbox. This is going to include the powerful lessons that we've learned from these amazing people. Third, you're gonna get exclusive behind the scenes information about the show. There's a lot of things that are happening to grow this movement beyond the confines of just a radio show and a podcast. You'll get advanced notice of upcoming guests and early access to their interviews. You'll also get a link to our Facebook group. Now to get all these goodies, just head over to total michigan.com/join. Enter your email address and join our awesome community today. Hello everyone and welcome back to Total Michigan. I'm your host Cliff Dubon Law. Today I'm at the Valley Camp in Sault Ste Marie. And I'm sitting with Paul Sabourin, a museum, curator and a tour guide all around Mr. Information, especially historical information about Sault Ste. Marie. Before the break, Paul, we were talking a little bit about, the Sault Historic sites, and you mentioned the Tower of History. You also mentioned the river. Talk to us a little bit when we say the Tower of History, just give us a picture of what that is. What does that look

Paul Sabourin: 00:16:12

Okay. the Tower of History, naturally, if you look up, way up, 210 feet, nice to be exact. Then it is a cement structure next to the St. Mary's cathedral. It has an elevator that can whisk you up 45 seconds. Thank you. Or if you wish, 292 steps to take you to the top. And there's three observation platform. One is enclosed with displays and with information with binoculars. And also an interactive marine traffic so that you know which ship you're able to see that's coming by on the St. Mary's river. Nice. The other two, and if you're challenging yourself to be out in the open air, then there's two observation decks. One that's a little bit higher. It's open air and one that's a little bit lower where you can pretty well see 360 degrees of the city of Sault Ste Marie. From there, you've got a very nice view of what's left of the St. Mary's Rapid, but also you can see over in Sault St. Marie, Ontario, Canada, and Sault Ste Marie, Michigan. The other side that we do have, and as I pointed out a little bit earlier, was the River of History Museum. Yes. And the river, again, as I say, is located downtown. It's our trifecta of history here for Sault Ste. Marie. You get a pretty good idea of the history of Sault Ste. Marie, and especially with the River of History. When you do walk in, you're handed a au, which has a recording. And you press on the various station in order to get the history of the native Anishinaabe Chippewa ban of Ojibwe, of the fur traders of John Johnston, who married Oshahguscodaywayquay, the daughter of Chief Waubojeeg.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:18:14

who I'm gonna have trouble saying that one

Paul Sabourin: 00:18:16

Oshahguscodaywayquay. Wait, I'll let you say it. Okay. John called her then Susan. Susan Johnson. Susan. I can say Susan, you can say. And these are some of the houses, for instance, that are on Water Street right next to the Valley camp, the original house of John Johnston. But let's get to the Valley Camp. The Valley camp itself, 1917 in Loraine, Ohio. She was then launched for

Cliff Duvernois: 00:18:45

that's when she was

Paul Sabourin: 00:18:46

ARS in Yep. 1917, that's when she was built and launched. And she was carrying Coal for all of the furnaces and coal for all of the locations that then produced metal in 1955. She then was purchased by Republic Steel and named the Valley Camp to commemorate the Valley Camp Coal Company out of Pennsylvania. She sailed until 1966 and at that particular time, she is a coal fired furnace, triple expansion steam engine. She was then decommissioned and laid up in Dilute, and this is when the Sault Historic site then made a purchase. From that particular time onward, as a non-profit organization, we then develop all of the interior and exterior of the ship itself. At this point here, we have an excess of about 150 models of ships that are inside the Museum Ship Valley Camp. Yeah. We also have then this particular room that we're in right now, about four years ago, the shipping company and the Sault Historic site coordinated a, an approach to create an environmentally controlled room, and the reason is to be able to house the beautiful eagle that you see next to

Cliff Duvernois: 00:20:22

Yes. For our audience, if you're watching this on the YouTube channel, you can definitely see it, but that is definitely a work of art. So yes. Talk to us about the eagle. Where did the eagle come from? Why is it significant?

Paul Sabourin: 00:20:33

Well, the eagle itself was, 1873 was carved out of number of pieces of wood that was connected together, and it was put on the top of the pilot house of the Vienna. Now the Vienna was a ship that sailed up till 1786 and. During that particular time, it was foggy in Whitefish Bay and it got struck by another ship. It was brought as far to the close to the shore as possible, but about two miles away from shore in Whitefish Bay. It sank. In the seventies, the in Department of Fisheries and Wildlife were doing some research and the nets caught on to the fish. At that point, divers went down and they were able to recover the eagle that we see right here. Beautiful. It was shared with a space that was environmentally in control at the Great Lake Shipwreck Historical Society in Whitefish Point. And once we were able to make this particular room here, which is the John p Wellington Great Lakes marine hall of Fame, It is environmentally controlled, so you can imagine right now it's probably about 75 degrees outside. And right now it is a cool. 55, 60 degrees with lights and humidity with that, then the eagle landed and it came here back to the Valley Camp.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:22:19

What I would like to do is, let's talk about if I was gonna bring a family here, like I've never been to the Valley camp before, but this is gonna be something cool. We can go in here, we can see a bunch of history. We can learn a lot about shipping through the Soo locks and the whole area. what could it, what could somebody expect when they come here?

Paul Sabourin: 00:22:41

when a family comes in, it could be, a family, one of 30,000 people during the six month that we're open seven days a week from mid-May to the end of October. Then the children themself from, up from eight years old. To 17, our children's rate, any younger, it's no admission charges. So the family can come in here and the first thing that really the children are attracted to is the aquarium. We do have fish that are swimming here. There's beautiful rainbow trouts. There's blue gills. And the kids really enjoy that particular one. Once they're down in the bottom, of the ship itself, then there's an interactive area where they can be either the captain or the watchman or the wheel person and pretty much steer the ship that they're in charge of. So those are some of the main attractions. But again, as I say, the history of all of the various maritime. Locations and the first lock in Sault Ste Marie, we have a beautiful display. It's a model of the 1855 state lock that was built here in Sault Ste Marie.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:24:03

Now, and you kind of alluded to this before, but I do wanna explore this and basically this is the Valley Camp giant freighter ship that has been converted into a museum and from stem to stern is not only like historical remnants of the Valley Camp, but all of these other ships as well.

Paul Sabourin: 00:24:26

Yes. lots of other ships are being depicted here. We have models, again, as I say, 150 of them. We have models also of a few of the 13,000 footers. We have a model of the Walter Jim McCarthy, Jr. We have a model of the Carl D. Bradley. And with the Carl D. Bradley, that particular one is very good, presentation. But there is also something of very close interest, especially to our particular area. Because in 58, in November of 58, the Carl D. Bradley broke in half. To give you a little bit of a background, the crew was ready for winter birth and they got a call when they were leaving Chicago and getting ready to go to Green Bay. And they say, you need to go and load up another load of limestone. So the captain changed the course and the storm started brewing. And when it reached around the area of close to the Strait of Mackinac, then it broke in half.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:25:38

Ooh,

Paul Sabourin: 00:25:39

Four of the sailors were tossed overboard along with the life raft, but the rest went down with the ship. It was 7:30 at night. It was November. It was a storm. And of the four, that were there on the life raft, two of 'em froze to death. But two of 'em survive. Elmer Fleming and Frank Mays. It was 13 hours later that the US Coast Guard was able to find them the next morning and save them. Since then, Elmer Fleming has passed away. He was a much older person. But Frank Mays was a gentleman who just passed away two years ago. Okay. But Frank wrote a book about his episode on the Carl D. Bradley. And three years ago we had a young man from the Coast Guard, Andrew Tamlin, Stempki from St. Igance, who wrote a script, recruited all of the casts, and for three days in December we were on top deck and also inside the Museum Ship Valley Camp, doing a movie documentary about the wreck of the Carl D. Bradley. As you can imagine. We are now in the final stage of setting it up. So it's gonna be continuous in cargo hole number one. But if you're interested at this point here, going on YouTube and looking for trailers of The Man Long Forgotten

Cliff Duvernois: 00:27:27

The Man Long Forgotten okay.

Paul Sabourin: 00:27:29

Those are the indication that's gonna be with the cd. There will be then production ongoing. But also the other interesting thing is we have, as I mentioned, the lifeboat and the ring from the Edmund Fitzgerald. We also have a theater, or I should say two of em that have the Fitzgerald Controversy. It is the fourth. Ooh, yes. There was the wreck. And there was the mystery. Now it is the controversy is the title of this one. It's an hour and 20 minutes. So if you spend time on the Valley Camp and you're interested in learning all about the Edmund Fitzgerald, we have then this video that's running from opening to closing. And then you can pretty well listen to all of the interviews, listen to all of the documentation about the Fitzgerald, and learn everything about the fitz.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:28:30

Now, I do want to ask this question here. And I want the audience to actually look it up for themselves if they're into a good. controversy or mystery, but tell us a little bit about why it is the controversy or what is the mystery.

Paul Sabourin: 00:28:48

I usually answer it by saying I've got three answers. I don't know. I don't know, and I don't know. There we go. Thank you

Cliff Duvernois: 00:28:57

a documentary for yourself and decide for yourself.

Paul Sabourin: 00:29:00

Because there was an investigation naturally that was carried out by the US Coast Guard.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:29:04

Yes.

Paul Sabourin: 00:29:05

And as

Cliff Duvernois: 00:29:05

as within commonplace, whenever there's a shipwreck or an airplane goes down or anything, there's always an

Paul Sabourin: 00:29:11

Yes. And the investigation is not conclusive. But it is a theory of what happened. 'cause nobody survived. And even the people, or the people, the sailors that were on the Arthur M. Anderson, And Bernie Cooper was the captain in communication with Captain McSorley. They do not have any indication except to see what happened on that particular night of November the 10th, 1975.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:29:38

Oh, I love, love love a good mysteries. Now I gotta, I know, I gotta check it out. So Paul, if somebody is, listening to this interview and they wanna check out more, of the Valley Camp, of, the website when you're open, how best they could plan their trip. What's the best way for them to find you, find you online, social media, whatever.

Paul Sabourin: 00:30:01

Okay. If you have a G P S and you're in Sault Saint Marie, then 5 0 1 East Water Street, 5 0 1 East Water Street. This is our location of the ship store and the offices and the archives. And we're located right next to the Famous Soo Lock boat tour and the Valley Camp on the water. Naturally, yes, the ship is floating. Only about a third of it is in the ground. So the best way also is to log in and check our name of the organization, Sault, S A U L T, historic sites.com. You'll be able then to see information about the Museum Ship Valley Camp, the Tower of History, the River of History. And also the historic homes, which are located right next. And they're owned by the city and manned by the docent from the Chippewa County Historical Society.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:31:12

Nice. So

Paul Sabourin: 00:31:12

there's the history in a handful.

Cliff Duvernois: 00:31:16

And for our audience, you can always go over to Total Michigan.com. Click on Paul's interview and see the links that he mentioned above. Tune in next week for another exciting story about an ordinary michigan, or do some pretty extraordinary things. We'll see you then.